What Do You Think? (About Black Male "Revolutionaries" & White Women)

       



Fathia Nkrumah with son.



         Last week I got to talking with two sisters. The topic: black “nationalist/revolutionary” men dating/marrying white women. Before I get into what was said, I must confess: I get skeptical (or is the right word perturbed? uncomfortable?) even when I see non-radical black men dating white women. Yet I can’t put my finger on the exact reason for these feelings. I must say here that this is not a feeling reserved only for people of African descent, but people of color in general – Latina/o, Asian, etc. I must also note that my apprehension is not arbitrary, but based within my recognition of the history and continuation of oppression and white supremacy.




So the conversation began with both ladies shaking their heads. They were definitely not down with the nationalists dating white women. For whatever reason that day I took the opposite position.  
Me: “We’re talking about black radicals who were fighting to get rid of the notion of race. Couldn’t it be that they were more progressive than we could understand?”

The response was no. “How can you fight for black liberation and preach about building black families and nations if you can’t love black women?” 
Well, I think I said that it might not be relevant. Something about public versus private lives. Something about these men being free of the diseases they’ve diagnosed others with.



My friends continued to shake their heads.


We spoke about Frantz Fanon, Bob Marley and Kwame Nkrumah. The discussion of these figures of course led to a tangent: do we consider Nkrumah’s Egyptian wife, Fathia Nkrumah African? Is she black? And what about Bob Marley’s former girlfriend Cindy Breakspeare? 

Me: “Isn’t Cindy Breakspeare mixed race? Are Northern Africans not African? Are they too not black?”
I was shot down on both counts. Up came a picture from a search engine. “Cindy is white,” they said. “Fathia is Arab.”



I did not have concrete details. I did not deny an Arab slave trade or the fact that some Northern Africans distinguish themselves from the “Sub-Sahara”. But I argued that maybe we discount how much Africans have influenced Arab culture, probably in the same way that mainstream history neglected the Greeks indebtedness to the Egyptians. Did the relationship between Africans and Arabs start with slavery? I also don’t think it helps the fight for liberation to play into some of these artificial divisions. 
We went on:



Me: “What about black “nationalists” who date black women who could pass for white? Women who adhere to European aesthetics?”
Sisters: “That’s a problem too.”
One sister made a great point: “These conversations of black men dating outside the race are always about them dating white women specifically. They’re not dating Latinas or Asians. That is a problem”


OK. These ladies were staunch in their opinions and I certainly applaud their commitment to liberation. We started talking about how black women have been burdened; the ways in which patriarchy stifled our mobility. So black men had this freedom to date and marry outside of the race because they were men. And white men historically have had their fill of white wives at home and women of color to rape and pillage on the side. White women had a tad bit more freedom due to their whiteness, but black women…don’t seem to venture out as  much.



This is a very complex topic and while I recognize the both history and the continuation of oppression, I do not think that its impossible to love a white person. Its just that history and the continuation of oppression do exist.



What do you think?


6 responses to “What Do You Think? (About Black Male "Revolutionaries" & White Women)”

  1. Alisha Avatar

    Wow, great conversation. I like the fluidity of this discussion. So many times for me talking about “interracial” romantic relationships can scramble many feelings in addition to my thoughts. One thing that is clear to me is that white people are not to be trusted. Relationships and families are complex with people within the same ethnic group, and to add to that component and get into a relationship with someone whose worldview is so contrary to yours is a weight I would never like to carry. Someone (in an “interracial” relationship)is going to submit to a worldview, whether it be an African or European, that is the question. Already in a social structure that tries daily to strip of one of their identity and succeeds in many ways, to deal battle at home is too much for me. There is a way too much work to be done, in every aspect of the battling white supremacy.

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  2. cyriac Avatar

    Nice debate but why is everyone is making a big scene about it. since when it is said that you can not date someone from a different color. why is it a big dilemma when it comes down to black men dating WHITE WOMEN? question that i will not understand. Is it of what happened in the past or else? since when racial differences are to be taken in consideration? this is an willing choice. we date whoever we want to date. we marry whoever we want to marry and spend our life with. Me personally don't have a problem with. as long both person enjoy each others company, their origins or their actions of their ancestors should not be taking in consideration. and kind of think of it, this is issue have always been engage by my sisters. so how do we feel when a sister is dating a white men?

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  3. Zee Speaks Avatar

    Thank you for taking the time to read and comment.
    Alisha, you are making a very good point about the personal being political. White supremacy certainly affects us inside and outside the home. I guess it would take a black person being extremely secure in their blackness for this not to affect them…

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  4. Zee Speaks Avatar

    Thank you for taking the time to read and comment.
    Cyriac, the “big dilemma” is the power dynamic involved in relationships (romantic, social, business, etc) between “white” people and “black” people. The actions of the ancestors is important because history does not occur in a vacuum and the European ancestors have left a legacy of oppression that has been actively reinforced through their children and grandchildren. “White” women have historically been put on a pedestal as the standard of beauty that all women should aspire to. So, some black men use their dating/marrying white women as a status symbol, something that sets them apart or makes them more than average. This is a problem. I wrote another blog earlier this year about black women and white men. I’ll be re-posting it soon.

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  5. chris Avatar

    i stumbled upon this while searching something on google. i'm a white guy and i dont subscribe to the notion that white women are the most beautiful…on the contrary, i actually think black women are the most beautiful (inside AND out). i also completely disagree with your assertion that my ancestors have “left a legacy of oppression that has actively been reinforced” through me. with all due respect, you're not me, so how can you tell me how i feel about other races? i dont know where you live, but in virginia there's a lot of racial unity. in fact, my college, virginia commonwealth university is one of the most diverse schools in the nation according to the princeton review. to me, there's only one race, and that's human. ONE LOVE

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  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Glad to know (for whatever that's worth) that white men still find black women beautiful Chris. Just thought I'd mention diverse just means a lot of different people – America can't seem to hide from that, as much as some might like to. It does not mean there is equality, harmony, justice. 1800s, 1900s America was pretty damn diverse, especially with the all those Europeans (French, British) forcibly moving all those Africans of different tribes, and native Americans of different nations around the continent. That doesn't mean it wasn't really great for some, and kinda not so great for others. I live and work in VA and in these parts it's still the black and brown brothers and sisters who disproportionately deal with marginalization, institutional racism, poverty, police aggression, disparities in the justice system and poverty. Maybe somebody forgot to tell some of the folks in these here parts about the ONE LOVE bit.

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